Angband: epilogue

a) it’s my last word (like before execution) – my last message about this topic.

b) this thread got in it a lot of interesting opinions, but it lacks of proper analysis and facts (except Takkaria’s answers). I myself want to propose some; to combine my main ideas from past messages in paragraphs, so it would be easier to see the whole picture.

c) it would be fun to see a proper answer to this (last) message. What is a proper answer? It’s an answer with facts and specifics, without common words. I write there particular paragraphs – 1, 2, 3, 4… Proper answer is to take this paragraphs and provide an opinion based at facts and evidence; if you are not agree with particular paragraphs – you should explain why you are not agree and to provide logical arguments towards your position.

d) I do not expect that something would be changed because: 
– Angband got authoritarian dev system (it’s not a defect, I’m also using such managment when I play in MMORPG and create guilds; it’s good for small-scale operation).
– I’m among minority.. But even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth (Gandhi).

So it’s just my last words with some facts (which could be wrong, please take a go to prove it):

1) Angband as the heritage.

– Angband could be considered as ‘Rogue 3’ (while ‘Moria’ is ‘Rogue 2’).
– Angband got it’s own unique world and lore, which is focused in it’s bestiary. 
– Angband lore based at mixed fantasy universe, mainly DnD which consist of greek, norsa, Tolkien etc
– As Angband got ~40 years history (counting from ‘Rogue 1’) and it’s lore should be threated with huge respect.

2) Monsters knowledge as the only persistent gameplay factor.

– Angband as all rlgs is RNG-based game.
– It’s gameplay learning curve is heavely based at it’s monsters knowledge – as it’s one of the few factors which is static.
– Not rebalancing, but removing/renaming/revamping monsters is a mistake as it destroy knowledge of thousands Angband players which they accumulated during long years. 
– We are (community) too old to learn this changes (or at least to have fun from such learning). It’s good to continue development and make game more interesting, but devs should add new monsters for this reason, without removing old ones. I’m not 14 y.o. boy to have time to re-learn monsters’ names after each revamp. Renaming monsters – is like destroying players’ brain cells.

3) Angband as an educational game.

Multi-lore universe gives Angband an unique advantage to be a educational game. Each monster got a description which often contain poetic and beautiful quotes from the books which players could start reading after playing the game.

4) With new monstrers Angband loosing it’s compatibility.

Technically it would become almost impossible for old versions of Angband and it’s variant to be up-to-date with ‘new Angband’. The end of continuity.

5) Angband already took everything it could from Tolkien lore.

– All Tolkien’s lore which is possible to extract from his works was already extracted and added to Angband in past years. 
– Most of stuff which is currently renamed/revamped is kinda pulled out of thin air (or other ‘a’ place) and not well-known even by Tolkien fans. This looks like strained effort to replace stuff with ‘at least something’.
– There are always would be stuff which Tolkien doesn’t have and which Angband players love (eyes, krakens etc) which leads to a lot of subjectivety in assessment – which monsters should stay and which should go.

6) No one asked to change Angband lore.

– I didn’t find players requests considering changes in current Angband lore. Of course, most of the players do not really care about it, they are mostly neutral.. and they trusting maintainers. But even in this topic there some opinions that players miss old monsters.
– It looks that this revamp of Angband lore is an initiative of one person which is kinda ‘forced’ it by his authority. No one asked for it (no offence meant, just a fact).

7) Splitting community. (coming from previous one)

– As lore changes do not really bother most of the players there were no need to make them.
– At the same time for some players, who takes the game seriously – it’s very painful changes and it’s split’s community (this topic is good example; there are a lot of personal offencive words – words not about particular facts of this discussion, but about personal properties. Bad sign).

7) Pure-Tolkien games is a danger of copyright.

Angband was a ‘loosely’ Tolkien-based game. Current lore revamp makes it quite ‘strongly’ focused. This is the least important factor imho, but it still exist.

8) Nostalgia.

As I said in #2 – we are not young. Among Angband and roguelike community in general are not too much new players in this stupid age when modern graphics overcome the gameplay.

And each of us have a lot of stories about Angband monsters – funny and exiting stories. We love this monsters. We love Angband LORE.


Not much players realise that. But actually everyone got it’s in their hearts. Lore is this stories and memories. Removing traditional lore from the game, this monsters which everyone know – it’s a position that “Angband do not posses it’s own lore”. But it’s there. It was there.

Good bye.

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